tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3104088946474183171.post895913628099498892..comments2023-12-20T01:41:01.970+00:00Comments on No Sleep 'Til Brooklands: O, Moonenbaum...No Sleep 'Til Brooklandshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03326756018822759152noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3104088946474183171.post-19699879101642748162009-08-26T22:11:54.685+01:002009-08-26T22:11:54.685+01:00I know what their point is, I've heard it from...I know what their point is, I've heard it from plenty of atheists and Christians alike, I just think the net result when Mooney and Kirshenbaum write like this is a load of pointless squabbling between people who are broadly on the same side, when they could be doing something more productive than criticising a man for writing a fucking science book.<br /><br />I think if people put as much effort into promoting the theory of evolution 'nicely' as they did moaning about Dawkins' style we might actually get somewhere. Dawkins has his beliefs, he's honest about them, and I think he's perfectly entitled to do so. I also find him far less objectionable than a lot of people make out; his interview with Wendy Wright is a great example of how polite and patient he can be. I won't defend everything he says, but then I don't have to. I just think there's room enough in this debate for everyone to adopt the tone they're most comfortable with. No-one expects us bloggers to be scrupulously polite when we're dissecting Littlejohn or Hitchens or having a go at politicians, but we are required to clam up and watch what we say when discussing religion, and I can see why some people get frustrated that the robustness of, for example, scientific debate can't be carried over into discussions of religion.<br /><br />In this particular case, I think Mooney and Kirshenbaum's do a spectacularly weak job of backing up their actual points; they don't really provide any evidence of why Dawkins is such a twat, and the one vaguely attributed criticism they do provide is a pretty crass misrepresentation of Jerry Coyne's opinion of the NCSE, an organisation which Coyne, Dawkins and Myers all generally admire.<br /><br /><i>"Also, and this is something that you will rarely read from either side of the debate, many moderate Christians (and indeed the moderates of many other religions) who believe in evolution, often feel that Dawkins etal tar them with the same brush as the fudamentalists"</i><br /><br />Heh, maybe it's the places I read, but I've heard that complaint frequently. It's certainly something you can't get away from in any discussion of something as broad as religion, which varies wildly in adherence and interpretion. It's very difficult to have a debate about it if you have to caveat the shit out of everything. But y'know, Dawkins' main problem with religion is where it contradicts science teaching, and the bulk of his criticism is reserved for the fundamentalists.No Sleep 'Til Brooklandshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03326756018822759152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3104088946474183171.post-2819918715405293662009-08-26T21:01:43.949+01:002009-08-26T21:01:43.949+01:00Lets turn this around for a moment.
In the town w...Lets turn this around for a moment.<br /><br />In the town where I live you will find quite regularly in the market square a youngish chap, I'd put him at about 25, who stands and preaches. And we are not talking modern liberal Christianity whihc believes in the big band and evolution but fundamentalist young earth stuff. Now I am Christian myself, but of the more modern varierty, and I wish this guy would just shut the fuck up. He may think he is doing the right thing but I would put good money on the fact that he has probably put more people off Christianity than he has ever converted.<br /><br />I think Moonebaum makes a similar good point about Dawkins. I have no doubt that he has explained evolution to many that did not understand before, but how many has he also put off with his confrontational style? I don't think he is attacking him for writing about evolution as such, more that some of his previous material has not put him in a position where some people are going to listen to him.<br /><br />Also, and this is something that you will rarely read from either side of the debate, many moderate Christians (and indeed the moderates of many other religions) who believe in evolution, often feel that Dawkins etal tar them with the same brush as the fudamentalists. In failing to make that distinction Dawkins et al once again repel a large swaith of people.Akelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831868310005824686noreply@blogger.com